Michael Levitz (00:00)
Hello and welcome to the third episode of our podcast, which now has a name. Actually, Bob and Della, I didn't even tell you we had a name. Forecasting the Brief. So thanks everybody. We have a special episode today where we have Bob Frady and Della Quist, two awesome friends of the podcast and the company. And why don't we start out with how the four of us ended up being here together. Della, you're responsible for this. Do you want to talk about it?

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Dela Quist (00:27)
think I'm responsible, I'm not sure, but it's one of those things where Bob is probably equally guilty.

And so you reached out to me and we started working and I was like, interesting stuff, right? And you came to me and it's AI and it's content. And you came to me and email framework. And I'm like, how did you, why did you reach out to me? And you went, a couple of guys mentioned your name. And then a couple of weeks later, I said, who was it? And you go, Bob Frady. I'm like, my God. You mean retired Bob Frady? Over to you, Bob. Thank you.

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (00:58)
Yeah,

was, you know, I had started working with forecasting because as a small entrepreneur, it's really hard to stay ahead of the content creation game. And so they had a pretty unique approach where they would not only handle our email creation, because I still don't know how to code HTML, but they would also create blog posts from that same content.

and it's been wonderful. And so I always like cool things in email and I said, hey, you should talk to this guy, Della. And then here we are, you know, weeks later on a podcast together.

you know, all this stuff is about production for us and getting things out the door without me having to actually do it. but yet still being creative and still being on point with our brand, which has been wonderful. You know, we've grown our subs, we've grown our email base. You know, we still put the things on there and both buyers and people who are interested and you just have to keep building.

the word and email is the easiest way to do that.

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Michael Levitz (02:03)
And Bob, the way you use us is kind of exactly as intended. You know, and you were, you were our second customer. don't know if we ever told you that. So you got it right away. Like even when we weren't even sure that we had it. And you know, the reason I mentioned that is like you are out there with what you're doing, a property lens leading in the space of kind of thought leadership and product. And you're defining these territories that you're.

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (02:18)
Yeah.

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Michael Levitz (02:30)
you know, customers with. That's exactly what we need. What we want is for once you're done with that, you shouldn't have to go and create content across all these different channels. You've already done the work of saying this is what we believe and this is how we're solving the problem. It's so easy for me to then just run with that on a weekly basis and create those blog posts and those newsletters.

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (02:52)
Yeah, it's wonderful. know, uh, Della and I met gosh, 20 years ago or so when I was doing email marketing for live nation, almost 20 years ago and, creating the content we had eight people, we ended up turning the system from, uh, 300, uh, excuse me, from 50 campaigns per year to 15,000 campaigns per year.

We used a lot of automation and we had a lot of people sort of touching the end product and there were eight of us, but it was like a $250 million business. was a pretty cool thing. And then I eventually moved on to Expedia and ran global outbound marketing there where I had a very funny experience with someone who I did not like working for.

and I asked Della to come in and consult with us and he's like, you need to send more email. And I'm great. I'm totally with you. And then we. We brought Della in to speak to the team and my boss, the CMO at the time said, we're going to improve the product for email without sending more email. I'm like, this is going to be great. And, and so, you know, XPD emails are still terrible as, as now live nations are as well.

so I can say that because I got, hit up for Aerosmith tickets months after they had canceled their tour. And I'm like, and I was in, I live in Minneapolis in the summer, ACDC kicked off their tour in Minneapolis. I had no idea it was there. so content creation and localized and relevant content creation is something that.

Email marketers have struggled with for as long as there's been email marketing. And so the ability to say, here, you do it and have it be so good is, is really a wonderful thing for us.

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Dela Quist (04:52)
My view has always been any idiot can write a consumer newsletter. All you have to do is read the news and watch TV and be into popular culture and you can probably write something.

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (05:02)
Well, Dell and I disagreeing and then agreeing at the end. That's the usual path.

Sometimes organizations think, they're looking at my product and so they're gonna see things under my lens. And that's traditionally how direct-to-consumer markets have worked. You just keep repeating your lens.

And I had this struggle at Expedia. I'm like, we are selling travel. We're not, we're selling the joy of travel. We are not selling the mechanics of travel. And so it was a big fight internally. So I think that the opportunity that a lot of what you do, Michael, is in thinking the way the consumer thinks filtered through your brand preferences rather than.

getting the consumer to think what your brand thinks, which is a neat trick if you can do it well.

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Dela Quist (06:00)
Yeah, and by the way, I'm going to have to now agree with you. You are right. We ping off each other. But I mean, it's about nuance. Okay. So I accept your nuance and I'm going to reframe it because what we're talking about. Have you ever.

If you've ever thought of being a columnist or a diarist, okay, for a national newspaper, no one would take daily, right? You're an idiot if you take weekly. You've got to think of 52 new things every year to come up with. And even if you managed it in the first year, the second year you've got to come up with another 52 things and it gets harder and harder and harder. So I think that...

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (06:29)
Mm-hmm.

Yep.

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Dela Quist (06:38)
I think that, yeah, and it's something I actually advise against. If someone's putting their content plan together, I've actually had this conversation with you guys, right? You have to say, are the things we have to talk about every month? What are the things we have to talk about every week? What are the things we have to talk about five times a year, whatever it is, and then do that. And that's what a kind of diarist does. So if you're a diarist, you have to sort of sit down, well, I'm gonna be talking about the holiday season and the holiday season, so let's point that out.

Let's worry about that and wait until October to worry about it. And it's the same sort of thing. So I think this is you basically create an automated diarist for the B2C and an automated content specialist and copywriter for, well not copywriter, but certainly briefer for B2B.

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (07:25)
Yeah, in my last company, I used to write a weekly blog post and I hated it. I hated it. My high school English teacher told me something that has stuck with me my entire life. She's like, the empty page is your worst enemy because all it can do is show how stupid you are.

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If you don't have some way to think of things to talk about that are unique and not just the same thing over and over, it's, I used to hate writing those things because

I just not only couldn't think of enough cool ideas, I just hated the actual act of writing it. I love editing. I'm a better editor than writer. And so now with the technology, it's like, okay, give me 50 ideas. All right, I'm going to sift through these and I'm going to say, here's the five I want. And then say, based upon these five, give me 10 more. And, and the technology does it for you almost instantaneously, which is all it's like magic.

and then you want to write the content and you may want to write it yourself, know, to get your voice in there. But what's interesting is when you tell prompts to write in the style of someone.

Um, like you could take the same piece of content and say, it in the style of the New York times, write it in style of LA times, which is different, you know, write it in the style of Rob Gronkowski, you know, tied in for the new England Patriots, you know, different, you know, write it to a London audience. It's different. It's, it's so interesting how those nuances can play out. Now I still like to edit stuff at the end, although I've, I've even outsourced the editing to, Michael and Robin because I do such a good job at it. I just checked to make

sure the links all work. It's a new day and the possibilities are almost endless in terms of how you can improve your program by really leaning in rather than being afraid.

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Michael Levitz (09:20)
So two important things there. One is we need to put together a Gronk GPT because that would be incredible. I don't know how many words would be in each thing, but it would be incredible. Second is, I mean, it's really interesting you mentioned how things are changing. If you guys were to design like a content marketing team for right now, you know, that didn't have any of the baggage of the past, what would that team look like?

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (09:26)
Yeah!

It would look like you guys because you're my content writing team right now. But if I was doing it internally, I would have, and I hesitate to call it a prompt engineer, but I would have a prompt engineer. I would try to have some subject matter experts who really do live it and not just rely on regurgitation from the web.

That would be sort of consultants. I have a very small team. Let's start small and build it up from there. And I, and I, and I just test, I test the hell out of everything. You know, it's like come up with 50 different concepts and all right, these suck. These suck. These are good. Let's test them. And then the ones that we don't like, we'll test those too, because generating the content is so simpler than it was 15 years ago.

That's what I think. What, Delahue, what do you think?

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Dela Quist (10:40)
I agree with you 100%. I was just trying to figure out.

how to explain why my position is slightly different, okay?

I immediately saw the application for everybody else, but I'm not typical, right? Because I'm a content marketing expert. I was much more interested in if it could actually help me write the newsletter

I find it really difficult to imagine how anybody could out subject specialize me and that's not arrogance it's just the truth I mean no other idiot spends 20 years in email just me right so I deserve what I wear

So really it was about trying to see if it worked. And then as I did it, I mean, that's what I made the Dyrus and stuff like that. But remember, I'm a single consultant, Bob's running a business, right? He has an audience that needs content that isn't readily available. There are hundreds, I've got tens of thousands of companies like that.

And it's great. It works. And we made it work because right at the beginning I said, all right, so are you gonna write the copy for me? You said, no, I could, but that's not what this tool is for. The tool is to write briefs. And feel free to correct me if I said that wrong. And as a brief writer, it's very, very good. My GPT went, yeah, yeah, we could run with this brief for three weeks or four weeks or whatever if you like.

Right? So, and would you like me, then it goes, would you like me to extrapolate and put more on top of that? Now, most people don't have that. If they did, great. Right? And if they don't, and if their copywriter says that, that's good as well. The whole point is you're not there to do their job, that piece of the job. You're there to actually do the brief, the research, the ranking, the sort of everything that it takes to turn content marketing from words to an effective strategy.

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (12:26)
But what I do is I can take ideas, disparate ideas, and put them together in a way that's unique. And the thing I love about what you're doing is it creates a series of disparate ideas. Now, a lot of people aren't comfortable with that.

A lot of people just want to stick to what they know. They want to stick to what works and they're afraid of the creativity that these tools can bring because they're not used to taking, okay, here's piece A, piece B, piece C. They're all in different lines of thought. Now put them all together and create piece ABC, you know, that or whatever you want to call it. So for me, it's a humongous playground.

to think, have to, no, yes, no, yes, put those two together and then off we go. So that is, I think that for people who struggle with creativity, these tools can be massive value adds. Now, for the person writing a lot of this stuff, does it mean they go from a writer to an editor? Yeah, yeah, there's some replacement that's gonna go on. You know, I...

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Dela Quist (13:28)
But you do that

in real life, don't you? Most writers end up being edited, so am I wrong? As soon as they get good enough.

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (13:33)
Yeah,

yeah, yeah, it's, know, editors and writers are, you know, a frickin' frack to a certain extent. It's a love-hate relationship, but if the editor could replace the writer and have their writer do something cool, then some will. But the writer who has a unique voice always wins in the end. So this gives you a chance to create a unique voice.

which is, which is really super, it seems like there's all this old knowledge. So you just regurgitating, but really what's there is this existing knowledge is a framework to create new knowledge. And I think that's super, super exciting.

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Michael Levitz (14:12)
Bob, think I'm going do a little personality analysis here which you may not know. I think, and Robin, back me up if you agree, you would be a Bayesian marketer, which I don't know is a term. We may have just invented this term. But when you described having your core content team being people that are identifying new topics and exploring the viability, that's just a very different approach then.

How do I maximize the value of this one email from like 50 % to 51 %? And that's exactly what we're trying to do.

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (14:47)
It's funny that you say that because my web 1.0 experience was in a Bayesian statistical analysis company. And I love Bayesian analysis. We were so far ahead of our time, it was ridiculous. so, Bayes has been dead for 300 years, but his theories live on. And so, I love Bayesian analysis. It's like, if you got it, use it. If you don't, don't, and don't worry about it.

It's also very stoic. It's like, if it's there, use it. If it's not, don't worry about it. People spend so much time worrying about what's not there. It's like, don't worry about it. Just move. So yeah, I would agree. I'm pro-Basian 100 % of the time. Well, when the data is available. So if it's not available, then I'm Bayesian, you know, 70 % of the time.

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Dela Quist (15:30)
see that's as an FYI book I just know when data could or should be there I don't have to know the data I just know that it will be there if you look for it and it saves me a lot of time

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (15:42)
You know,

I'll give you an example. You know, we do a lot of things like roof age identification and when roofs have been replaced in a property. Not the most exciting thing in the world for a lot of people. But we pulled a report the other day in this property that had its roof replaced three times.

And we don't point it out because you're just serving the data. But by seeing the data, then you can say, here's an element we can now create, which is the number of roof replacements in the last 15 years. And if the number is more than one, then you you're living in an area where you're probably going to lose your roof in the next five or 10 years.

And so that's where by having the old knowledge there, you can then create the new knowledge. so yeah, creating new, because listen, if you're just regurgitating old news, you're going get run over. You got to figure out ways to create new news, which is new data.

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Dela Quist (16:42)
Can I, hmm,

I'm going to push back on that, right? Not because you're wrong, because you're only describing part of the problem. Okay. So one of the things is...put open rates to one side, but if you were to realistically take an open rate, currently open rates are 40, 50%, they were typically about 15, 20%, 10 % back in the day, right? So what you're basically saying is that eight out of 10 people who get your email won't open it, right? So the content actually doesn't matter eight out of 10 times. That's a weird thing. What matters is having content should they open it.

not having content, it's having content should they open it. And given they're only going to open one in five, I push back on saying you have to be fresh and exciting every day. Because one of the things I've learned is you have to be repetitive. And let me give you an example, Coca-Cola. If Coca-Cola slightly tweaked their brand name every day, do you think they'd be the brand they were? Do you think if they changed their colors every day, do you think they change their messaging every day? So at end of the day, the messaging for Coca-Cola is Coca-Cola. Bob, yours is property, right?

Bob Frady - PropertyLens (17:24)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

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Dela Quist (17:53)
say the same thing every day and it won't matter. Having said that, there are people who read every email that you have. They mostly work for you or their parents or your family, but outside of that, there are people for whom it matters and those are the people who you're writing the good content for. So this is a really weird thing. Your best content is only for a tiny, tiny, tiny proportion of your list, right? Now that brings us back to, well, what am I wasting my time thinking about all this content?

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (17:53)
Yep.

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Dela Quist (18:22)
Blah blah blah blah blah.

was gonna read it and the answer is yeah, that's what's called AI, right? That's what AI is for. It does both. It both fills the gaps. And the other thing I was gonna say, my personal view is there is nobody B2B or B2C that should send less than one email a week, right? Nobody, that's my view. I would argue two emails a week, right? So if you are now sending 104 different messages or three times which is 100

156 messages in a year. That's a lot to fill and That's where the thing about new ideas and thinking about it and that's why I'm not afraid of repeating myself, right? if you've got 156 emails to fill you can repeat yourself a few times No one's gonna open all of them and the one that does as I say is your competitor your mother or someone who works for you no one else and and it's a harsh truth and do you remember Chris Baggett he's the

exact target back in the day. Right. He has been really generous to me because he has twice come back to me and said to me, because remember he said exact target did a great job, set up another business, exited from that. And I wish I was him now he's farming, he's got a farm, and it's an organic farm, and he sells all his produce locally. And about five, 10 years ago, he wrote to me and said, Della, you know something, I've tried to beat what you said for 10 years, and I can't. So I'm thanking you for teaching me

had to email Mark. Mark it. He emailed me again about a month ago. And he said, when I started the farm, I forgot what you told me. And I went back to trying to segment and target and give everyone a personal message. You bought potatoes, so you're gonna buy this. All of that kind of stuff. And he said, and then I just remembered and look at my email and he sent it. I just sent it four times a week to everybody. It's the same email. And he showed me his order book. Now, if you are a farmer, right?

selling to folks in your neighborhood and you sell produce

What do you need? They come in and they'll say, hello Bob, hello Della. I see you this, you're that. so good to see you. aren't the carrots good this year? That's what a relationship is about. And I think that's what marketing is about. And we need to understand, and we always say personalize and then treat everybody like everybody and everybody wants personalization. No, I disagree with that. So I think it's both. And forgive me for jumping in like this. You have to do both, okay? But the point is the top of the funnel is three emails a week, two emails a week, one email a week to everybody, right?

That's the top of the world Because and by the way go check out I wrote an article on leading yesterday which basically says monthly active subscribers is the thing metric that you should follow and That each impression you send and an impression is each email you send that gets into the inbox right whether it's rare or not It's potentially a new monthly active subscribe, it's as simple as that

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So your tool makes it easy for somebody to achieve the goal of creating 104 pieces of content a year minimum. That's my view. 52 if you want to be super conservative. But there's no need to do that if we have your tool. It's as simple as that. If they call you up, done, easy.

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (21:45)
It's so this goes back in time. I.

You know, I come from the direct mail world. That's that's, and then I jumped over to email marketing after that. So I looked at it as a, as a huge playground and Della told me something once, that has stuck with me because you just have to be better than the spammers. And so everybody gets all worried about open rate and super hyper personalization and, removing inactive subscribers. And I'm like, you're high. What are you doing? That's stupid. And.

Did said that at a trade show one time and it was quite the Donnybrook of conversation that way as much as email marketing can have a Donnybrook. It's like, you know, impolite comment, impolite comment. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You know, it's email marketers. I was like, what are you doing? You know, every brand impression you get is valuable. So send it out there because you never know. Like I think the conceit of too many email marketers is I'm going to send this and they're going to be ready.

And that's the wrong answer. You send it and you hope that they're ready or you send it hoping that there, you know, that you've hit the right time when they're ready. And that readiness period might be today. It might be a week. It might be five months. It might be a year from now.

But people know how to use an unsubscribe button. Google's made it real easy. You put it up on your email. You put the little tiny mice print unsubscribe on the bottom. I'm like, what are you doing? Why are you being such a jerk? Make it more visible. Or you're making people put their email back in to unsubscribe. It's like, come on. It's like, yeah, just let them go. If they're not interested, it doesn't mean they're not interested in you. It just means that this isn't the right channel for them.

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Dela Quist (23:12)
Yeah. Yeah.

Just let him know. Yeah.

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (23:27)
or they're not interested in you. One of those two things. And either way, who cares? Go. Better than hitting the spam button. So I think that having interesting content, I'm always gonna wanna have it. But being consistent and somewhat repetitive, you know, it's like, people don't know the problem. Like when I started at Live Nation, people didn't know what Live Nation actually was, because it was new at the time. But when you send a billion and a half emails,

People know, yeah, I get the email every week. You know, that's, that's a good thing. Now, maybe it's changed with social. don't know. I'm not as involved in it as I used to be, but.

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Dela Quist (24:02)
No it hasn't because,

Bob, it hasn't. It's what you do on TV, right?

Why do you think you pay so much for a Super Bowl commercial? That's reach. Okay? That's the biggest reach you're going to get in a year with a frequency of one. Okay? Now, flip it around. What do you see every day? You see every hour I could go through the commercials. And most of the funny in our pharma, all the commercials you see every day are either pharma or food. Okay? They're branded stuff. And you see them every day. They repeat themselves. Maybe they may shift over one year period and you say over the two years.

the commercials change, they just say the same thing over and over and over and over again. And that is called branding. And that's super good when it's called branding, right? But if you do that in email, you're an idiot, apparently. And that's what I struggle with. And one of the things I've said many times is that each email is an impression as you know, but the point is, is everyone says, but they're ignoring my email.

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (24:43)
Mm-hmm.

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Dela Quist (25:00)
Now think about that. Go and look at the dictionary definition of the word ignore. It means to willfully choose to not do something. Now, that's what it means. So whether you delete or you unsubscribe or you open it or you click it or you ignore it, you use the same amount of mental processing faculties to do all of those jobs. Now, deleting is a very, ignoring is

one because to ignore an email means that you are confident that you are not going to miss out by not opening it right you are not going to be fired for not opening it so to do that you have to look at it and go who's this from oh gap or my boss oh my god oh my god make a decision about that all in a split second and everyone goes there ignoring my email now i know that's one of the strongest mental imprints that you can have as a human being

because you've made a conscious decision and you did it three times a week.

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (25:57)
Yeah, I get quoted all the, see it on the, the, the tweeter all the time where I once said at the conference that people don't sign up for your email. They sign up for your brand. They want to be part of your team. Oh my God has been repeated so many times. I'm almost embarrassed that I said it, but when people like, when you look at your email inbox, subject lines, I think you're incredibly important. Uh, if it's always 30 % off, it's like the hell, you know, it's like.

Get the subject lines sharp enough so that people at least scan it. And they might willfully just get, okay, I'm fine, delete it. It's the unsubscribe action. That's the only action that you have to be worried about. And you're happy when they do it. But...

The spam button is the worst and usually it comes at the beginning. But once they're on and they keep consuming these bits of content, whether consciously or unconsciously, they're...

attachment to you is significantly greater than if they haven't had this at all. So you make a commitment every time you even see the brand name and you build up those micro commitments over time and that's how you get.

customer loyalty is you keep making that exposure. know, Della once said, would you run one less TV ad or one less radio spot? And the answer is most people run more or whatever it happens to be. Just get the impressions. It's an impressions game and impressions build up over time so that you go, okay, fine. I'm fine. I've heard about this enough. Fine. Let's go in. And, and so it's.

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Dela Quist (27:29)
And by the quickly.

Emails are the cheapest impressions that have ever existed since the beginning of time. Right? There is no other thing that can deliver a brand impression for like 50 cents a thousand. Imagine that price. And back in the day, a long, long time ago, I'm not particularly religious, but I went to school and I learned all the religious stuff. Basically, it's cheaper than the Sermon on Mount. Jesus did 10,000 people for five o's and two fishes. Right? That is significantly, significantly

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (27:37)
Yep.

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Dela Quist (28:00)
significantly more than 50 cents a thousand and it's just crazy that everyone walks past that and they would rather pay $150 a thousand to be in Super Bowl or $30 a thousand to be on Google or Facebook or some social media crap. I just don't understand it. You can... it's cheaper than air.

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (28:19)
Well,

it's hard to get people to sign up. That's the first challenge. And now you can buy a list. You can do all this stuff, which is, you know, in B2B, I get a lot of unsolicited stuff in B2B, which, you know, I don't like. like, put it on some message on there.

But it's not as easy to build that list. Now, once you've built it, then it becomes its own universe. But building that list is a little tricky for some folks, but you always, always, always wanna ask for it. It's like your phone number, you know? It's like.

You got it as as as Della lovingly says if you don't have an email address, you're the digital equivalent of homeless and And it's true. It's true, you know when you need to get a receipt You don't deliver it to your freaking Instagram account you deliver to your email address So everyone has one and everyone some people have multiple ones. So it's a way to reach people inoffensively You know if you've acquired them sort of

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Dela Quist (29:21)
I'm gonna

say also tariff free. By the way, this is something I wrote an article about this. It's tariff free because once you have someone's email address, it means you don't have to pay meta, you don't have to pay alphabet, you don't have to pay anybody to reach your customer again, right? And you can send 500 messages to that customer for the cost of one ad.

reaching them through any of the methods of like, you know, targeting and behavior and all of that sort of stuff. And so the way I see it is advertising is basically a tariff. The better the audience and the bigger it is, higher the tariff. It's as simple as that.

So what this does is it gives every individual brand the opportunity to get into the biggest market in the world, whatever that is, tariff free. That's how I look at it.

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (30:06)
Yeah.

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Michael Levitz (30:07)
Question here, love what we're talking about, frequency, topics, behavior. One thing I hear lot still is all we want to do is send, you know, right message, right time, right person. We want to send as few emails as possible, just so precise that we only have to contact them once and we're done.

you know, there's this approach to email which is almost like use it as little as possible.

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (30:33)
I would say stop being such a shoe gazer. know, the email marketers are the shoe gazers of the world. They're listening maybe to the Smiths. They're looking at their shoes. They're, they're feeling terrible about the world. Everyone thinks that they're spammers. It's terrible, terrible, terrible. It's the, it's the least aggressive group of marketers. Like if your search market, your search marketer will fight for budget in a way that email marketers never would.

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Dela Quist (30:56)
Never do.

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (30:57)
Email marketers as generally are so passive. It's crazy, but the math is behind you, you know People have gotten to the point to sign up Talk to them. They want to hear from you. That's why they signed up Again, if you if you're doing your acquisition organically and honestly, they want to hear from you now They might get tired at some point. They're like, Yeah. Yeah, you talk too much fine Keep keep

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Dela Quist (31:20)
That almost never happens. If they don't unsubscribe

in the first two days, they're on your list pretty much forever. I kid you not.

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (31:26)
Yeah,

yeah, for example, I get a lot of political stuff because I made a donation to a candidate once and they, they spread that thing around like it was free. And so as soon as I get a new one, delete, unsubscribe, unsubscribe, unsubscribe, sometimes with very salty language attached to it. But you're right, first two times I'm out. So.

And that's why we have intro emails. When we bring a new person onto our list, we send them through a series of intro emails. And then when they survive, then they go into the main email pool just to get rid of the, the, people who are maybe trying to get something for free or they're lucky, losing all that stuff. So it's a, um, it's a, uh, it's a never ending battle. So I would say you have to do what you're comfortable with, but try.

sending it one more time per unit. If you're sending it monthly, send it twice per month. If you're sending it weekly, send it twice per week. Try it out for two weeks and see what happens.

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Dela Quist (32:23)
Yes. Yeah.

And by the way, one more email. People always ask us if it's like when we will do something dumb. No, one.

It a birthday email, right? It just means everyone, every, you know, one 365th of your list gets another email on a particular day, right? It could be, here's the most powerful one, anniversary. If you've got anniversary, what's that? No, of the purchase. Now that could be monthly, it could be weekly, it could be annually. Most people are very habitual, right? They do the same thing about the same thing. Their mother's birthday never changes, right? Their daughter's birthday never changes. And so, even simple stuff like that.

is one more email. But I say one more email over the base which is the one or two a week that you send yourself.

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (33:06)
And most email marketers clutch at their pearls and run the other way when they see us coming. There was a, we went to a conference one time and a friend of ours, Lauren McDonald, put up a poster or a slide and it had Delia's picture, my picture, and the late great Jafar Ali's picture up there. And we were always the rabble rousers of the crew. And he put underneath it, what if they're right? And guess what? We're right.

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Dela Quist (33:06)
Yes.

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Bob Frady - PropertyLens (33:33)
And so if you have any questions, go to Della. Jaffer's passed away. I'm a little retired from email, but go to Della if you have any questions because he's right. I tested everything. He's right.

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Dela Quist (33:46)
Very tight.

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Michael Levitz (33:47)
Thank you guys so much, this has been incredible. and we'll talk to you soon.

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Dela Quist (33:49)
It's been brilliant. bye. It's a forecasting is a wonderful product. love it.

Bob Frady - PropertyLens (33:53)
I'm a customer and I'm very happy. that's, mean, I agreed to be on this podcast, not because I want to talk about open rates, but because you guys do such a great job for our business.

All right, well, it's good to see you, Michael. Thank you.

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Dela Quist (34:05)
Yes. Bye guys. Bye Robert. Thank you.

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Michael Levitz (34:06)
Thank you so much, you guys are great.